John Popp
Site Supporter
Neither of our F1s has ever thrown up unless they ate a nondigestable non-food item.
Removing variables is key, have a control set of parameters and then you can narrow down the issue, re-introducing variables one at a time.
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Picky unpredictable eater
- Thread starter Moggieslegacy
- Start date
Neither of our F1s has ever thrown up unless they ate a nondigestable non-food item.
Removing variables is key, have a control set of parameters and then you can narrow down the issue, re-introducing variables one at a time.
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
I am hoping to get my cat in to see the vet tomorrow. (I just have one!!!) If there is any concerns I agree it makes sense to keep him in a few days (or longer if appropriate) to figure out how much he is eating and keep track of his poops. I did keep him in most of the night before last and stayed with him on the couch but I got no sleep because there is some really big spiders in my house at this time of year and I was not comfortable. I normally sleep outside under a mosquito net. When I went out with him last night I realized he is eating well and has lots of energy and a voracious appetite for what he likes. So I let him be.
In my very limited experience, in the 1960's, growing up with a Siamese cat that hunted mice, and that to everyone's disgust regularly regurgitated mice, and googling cats regurgitating raw food, think it is pretty common for cats to do this. Eating too fast, not chewing the pieces to be small enough to slide down the esophagus and having a long neck/long esophagus are said to be the non pathological reasons for this. If cats regurgitate all the time, it can be a congenital defect. Moggie doesn't.
(edited to remove irrelevant details and personal stories about the cat I grew up with)
In my very limited experience, in the 1960's, growing up with a Siamese cat that hunted mice, and that to everyone's disgust regularly regurgitated mice, and googling cats regurgitating raw food, think it is pretty common for cats to do this. Eating too fast, not chewing the pieces to be small enough to slide down the esophagus and having a long neck/long esophagus are said to be the non pathological reasons for this. If cats regurgitate all the time, it can be a congenital defect. Moggie doesn't.
(edited to remove irrelevant details and personal stories about the cat I grew up with)
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You are correct, this is not normal. There are many folk on this forum who feed raw, including whole prey and I do not recall any of them talking about their cat(s) regurgitating their food on a regular basis.
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
I will ask the vet about this, but to be clear I have only seen him regurgitate anything 2 times and the first time was a couple months ago. The last time was 3 days ago. I never said it was on a regular basis. Before last night, I have only seen him eat the whole prey he hunts a 2 times. He seems to leave rats, and shrews, but apparently loves mice. And last night in an hour he ate a mouse and a bunch of big moths 1/2 the size of my little finger, and another big mouse again this morning neither of which I saw any sign of afterwards.
I want to get his weight and general health checked but now I realize he still has a good appetite I am a lot less worried.
I want to get his weight and general health checked but now I realize he still has a good appetite I am a lot less worried.
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Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
Doing a bit of digging I see the topic of regurgitation has come up here quite frequently -just a few examples
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/vomitting-question.6493/
Quoting Brigitte Cowell "Does he tend to wolf down a meal (as regurgitation after eating too fast is fairly common)?"
Mentioned multiple times in this thread
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/vomit.4591/
Quoting Patti "If the food is not, or only partially digested then he is probably eating too much or too fast. "
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/raw-advice.6310/
If reguritation is normal or fairly common when it happens to indoor cats, in itself it is probably not a sign of sickness when it happens to outdoor cats.
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/vomitting-question.6493/
Quoting Brigitte Cowell "Does he tend to wolf down a meal (as regurgitation after eating too fast is fairly common)?"
Mentioned multiple times in this thread
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/vomit.4591/
Quoting Patti "If the food is not, or only partially digested then he is probably eating too much or too fast. "
http://www.savannahcatchat.com/threads/raw-advice.6310/
If reguritation is normal or fairly common when it happens to indoor cats, in itself it is probably not a sign of sickness when it happens to outdoor cats.
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
Yesterday I got into see a vet and my perception that Moggie is not growing, is loosing weight and is underweight were confirmed. At 12 weeks he was 3 and 3/4 lbs, at 16 weeks he was 5.5 lbs, he will be 7 months old Sept 12th, and he is now 6.3 lbs, which is probably down from 7 or 7.2 two or 3 weeks ago.
But other than that, so far anyways, he seems healthy. Occasional regurgitation is a non issue. He tested negative for feline leukemia which, if he had it, he would have been born with, as he was never outside at all before being vaccinated and it is not common in this area anyways, and he also tested negative for FIV, which has never been seen in this area, but as he came from a different community he was tested for it. I am really relieved neither of these is a factor!. As he does not seem generally ill the vet doubts it is FIP. He has been treated for parasites monthly, with Revolution, so most parasites except for tapeworm should not be a problem, except when he was 12 weeks old, he was given the Milbemax which would treat tape worms, and I was not given or told about the next pill that was supposed to be given to him 2 weeks later, making the treatment ineffective. (there is more than 1 vet working out of the same office who apparently share patients, and when I decided to exchange the Profender for Milbemax, things got confused) But supposedly tapeworms that are not obvious don't usually cause a kitten to stop growing or loose weight. And the common stuff that does, like irritable bowel is usually accompanied by diarrhea, which he does not have. Today he is pretty lethargic after the Profender but not usually... And today I saw a healthy looking poop and no diarrhea or visible worms coming out. And as long as he has been recently seen enthusiastically eating mice, he has a healthy apatite.
So it is a bit of a mystery what is going on. The vet is thinking maybe he just has genes that mean he is going to be a really small cat (cats I saw at the house he came from were the biggest cats I have seen in my life) combined with a parasite (or my crappy scale) caused his weight loss which is now treated with Profender. He will be weighed again in a couple weeks and if he looks to still have a problem we will take it from there. And now I know my scale is often more or less accurate I can keep watch for any alarming trends before that.
Also, it was really helpful getting to talk to a vet who also has an indoor outdoor cat that is an avid hunter, who sees the parasites they get from this as a problem that is normally manageable (meaning only in this specific area and environment- other areas may be totally different). Especially as the first mice to go mysteriously missing without a trace, were the ones living and pooping inside my house, before my kitten ever set foot out the door.
But if anyone can think of anything besides the parasites which Profender should take care of, that could cause the symptoms described, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. I am still really concerned... And puzzled.
But other than that, so far anyways, he seems healthy. Occasional regurgitation is a non issue. He tested negative for feline leukemia which, if he had it, he would have been born with, as he was never outside at all before being vaccinated and it is not common in this area anyways, and he also tested negative for FIV, which has never been seen in this area, but as he came from a different community he was tested for it. I am really relieved neither of these is a factor!. As he does not seem generally ill the vet doubts it is FIP. He has been treated for parasites monthly, with Revolution, so most parasites except for tapeworm should not be a problem, except when he was 12 weeks old, he was given the Milbemax which would treat tape worms, and I was not given or told about the next pill that was supposed to be given to him 2 weeks later, making the treatment ineffective. (there is more than 1 vet working out of the same office who apparently share patients, and when I decided to exchange the Profender for Milbemax, things got confused) But supposedly tapeworms that are not obvious don't usually cause a kitten to stop growing or loose weight. And the common stuff that does, like irritable bowel is usually accompanied by diarrhea, which he does not have. Today he is pretty lethargic after the Profender but not usually... And today I saw a healthy looking poop and no diarrhea or visible worms coming out. And as long as he has been recently seen enthusiastically eating mice, he has a healthy apatite.
So it is a bit of a mystery what is going on. The vet is thinking maybe he just has genes that mean he is going to be a really small cat (cats I saw at the house he came from were the biggest cats I have seen in my life) combined with a parasite (or my crappy scale) caused his weight loss which is now treated with Profender. He will be weighed again in a couple weeks and if he looks to still have a problem we will take it from there. And now I know my scale is often more or less accurate I can keep watch for any alarming trends before that.
Also, it was really helpful getting to talk to a vet who also has an indoor outdoor cat that is an avid hunter, who sees the parasites they get from this as a problem that is normally manageable (meaning only in this specific area and environment- other areas may be totally different). Especially as the first mice to go mysteriously missing without a trace, were the ones living and pooping inside my house, before my kitten ever set foot out the door.
But if anyone can think of anything besides the parasites which Profender should take care of, that could cause the symptoms described, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. I am still really concerned... And puzzled.
There's a the chance that the Revolution, Milbemax, Profender is negatively affecting him. Was he checked for heartworm?
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
Thanks for the suggestions Witchy. It is so rare here, I had to look up what heartworm is. It is generally unknown here in Western Canada as our average temperature is normally too cool for it to complete it's life cycle. And my cat has no breathing problems. So probably he wasn't checked for this, because it is a really remote possibility.
I have wondered if maybe it is the various flea and parasite treatments might be hurting him. They do kill parasites so to my uneducated brain they seem like some sort of poison...But except for brief diarrhea and vomiting 1 time within 24 hours of being given Revolution, he doesn't seem to gradually recover after a treatment or get worse after he gets one. In a couple days he will be getting a new topical treatment for fleas -Bravecto instead of Revolution. Hopefully that will not give him such bad diarrhea. The last Revolution treatment his diarrhea had some tiny blood spotting- said to be a side effect and it only lasted a day, but it made me really uncomfortable.
Can these parasite products occasionally cause permanent damage to a cats health or ability to grow?
I have wondered if maybe it is the various flea and parasite treatments might be hurting him. They do kill parasites so to my uneducated brain they seem like some sort of poison...But except for brief diarrhea and vomiting 1 time within 24 hours of being given Revolution, he doesn't seem to gradually recover after a treatment or get worse after he gets one. In a couple days he will be getting a new topical treatment for fleas -Bravecto instead of Revolution. Hopefully that will not give him such bad diarrhea. The last Revolution treatment his diarrhea had some tiny blood spotting- said to be a side effect and it only lasted a day, but it made me really uncomfortable.
Can these parasite products occasionally cause permanent damage to a cats health or ability to grow?
Some can adversely affect cats and most damage I've read about is neurological. I searched for longitudinal studies of the effects of these products and came up empty handed. If you haven't already noticed, I tend toward paranoia and cynicism when it comes to stuff made for animals. I always want to see long-term studies and statistically significant results. Thirty day trials on 100 cats is insufficient for me in most cases. But at the same time, we have to make choices to do what we can to keep them healthy even if it means giving them something that may cause short-term temporary issues.
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
I agree about the studies of the effects of these things being extremely short term. And then there is how these things might interact in combination or if one is used for a couple month and then something different if they might have overlapping interacting side effects. I wish some people with cats that are known to get regular parasite exposure could do a scientific study to see if diatomaciuos earth is a realistic option for parasite control. I would prefer to use this but also want to know it actually works and is not just a fad.
Another thing I am wondering is if my cats eating problems could be psychological. And maybe the anorexia is the main reason he is loosing weight? His raw unleavened wheat flour dough fetish seems to be inspired by passionately wanting to lick it off my fingers. He will eat a pea sized piece and then quickly looses interest if I offer another one. But still wants to lick residue off my fingers. If I hand feed him I can usually get him to eat more than he will take from his bowl. I have been getting him to eat more by sitting by his food bowl while he eats. He seems to finish and walk away a few times, but if I am sitting there he will climb in my lap for a minute and then go back to eating. Today eating some cheese puffs sitting beside his food bowl, he was going nuts begging for one but when I gave a tiny piece, he just sniffs and then goes back to begging for me to share. When unnatural looking food and bowls are involved, and his hunting instincts have nor kicked in, maybe he needs to see another cat or human eating to maintain interest in eating? Social connections and hanging out in a group seem to mean more to him than most cats I have known. But he ate consistently well and was not at all picky when he was 9- 18 weeks old.
Another thing I am wondering is if my cats eating problems could be psychological. And maybe the anorexia is the main reason he is loosing weight? His raw unleavened wheat flour dough fetish seems to be inspired by passionately wanting to lick it off my fingers. He will eat a pea sized piece and then quickly looses interest if I offer another one. But still wants to lick residue off my fingers. If I hand feed him I can usually get him to eat more than he will take from his bowl. I have been getting him to eat more by sitting by his food bowl while he eats. He seems to finish and walk away a few times, but if I am sitting there he will climb in my lap for a minute and then go back to eating. Today eating some cheese puffs sitting beside his food bowl, he was going nuts begging for one but when I gave a tiny piece, he just sniffs and then goes back to begging for me to share. When unnatural looking food and bowls are involved, and his hunting instincts have nor kicked in, maybe he needs to see another cat or human eating to maintain interest in eating? Social connections and hanging out in a group seem to mean more to him than most cats I have known. But he ate consistently well and was not at all picky when he was 9- 18 weeks old.