Thank you for this site!

[Trish Allearz]

Smart consumers and value purchasers aren't the target market for "Elite" Savannahs. They are pretty clearly not marketed to the "if you need to ask the price, you can't afford it" crowd.

Every breeder with an ounce of business sense has a tiered price schedule for how they price cats of the same generation. Some cats are just going to command more dollars, be it bigger ears, shorter tails, darker spots or whatever. That someones hangs a tag on one of the better kittens they've produced is pretty much without relevance to the breed as a whole, but definitely gets the juices flowing for someone who is purchasing a cat as a statement of stature.

The point is- it is a marketing term for one website, it is not an appropriate term to differentiate between kittens or cats in the breed as a whole. When one is introducing someone to the breed- as a whole- it is confusing enough for them to understand different generations and the outcrossing A/B/C/SBT labels- let's not toss in breeder marketing to confuse them more!

 

[Louie'sDad]

The point is- it is a marketing term for one website, it is not an appropriate term to differentiate between kittens or cats in the breed as a whole. When one is introducing someone to the breed- as a whole- it is confusing enough for them to understand different generations and the outcrossing A/B/C/SBT labels- let's not toss in breeder marketing to confuse them more!

Trish,
The way I see it, the purchase of a non-showable SV, ie: F1, F2, or F3 is a whole 'nother business than the purchase of a cat with the TICA creds for breed showing.

 

[Trish Allearz]

Trish,
The way I see it, the purchase of a non-showable SV, ie: F1, F2, or F3 is a whole 'nother business than the purchase of a cat with the TICA creds for breed showing.

You lost me there?

'Elite' isn't a term used by any other Savannah breeder except for one (if I'm wrong- point it out and I'll eat my words- I'm good at that!). And at this moment, I cannot remember which one of the two bigger breeders it is. Therefore, it is just a marketing term used by one breeder, not a term that a newcomer to the breed needs to concern themselves with.

I maintain- a newcomer has enough to learn by trying to figure out what an F5C is or an F7SBT or an F2B is... Let's not confuse them further by using terminology used only by one breeder to sell their kittens!

If that is the case- there are other terms we can introduce too- but remember, it's confusing enough walking into this bree- whether you are only interested in F1s-F3s or SBT kittens!

 

[John Popp]

Nearly every breeder uses terms that are outside the breed standards to describe their kittens on their sites. It's commonplace for breeders to have different price points from the same litter and use all sorts of colorful metaphors proclaiming the differences. The breeder in question currently has 9 F2s on their site, with little to describe them outside the picture and 6 different price points (none labeled as elite, and some costing nearly twice as much as others). Certainly with that sort of spread there should be some latitude on how they choose to differentiate and describe their kittens.

So I'm left as nothing but confused if the issue is a descriptive word that no one else is using, an issue with the breeder in question or just sour grapes.

 

[John Popp]

You lost me there?

'Elite' isn't a term used by any other Savannah breeder except for one (if I'm wrong- point it out and I'll eat my words- I'm good at that!). And at this moment, I cannot remember which one of the two bigger breeders it is. Therefore, it is just a marketing term used by one breeder, not a term that a newcomer to the breed needs to concern themselves with.

I maintain- a newcomer has enough to learn by trying to figure out what an F5C is or an F7SBT or an F2B is... Let's not confuse them further by using terminology used only by one breeder to sell their kittens!

If that is the case- there are other terms we can introduce too- but remember, it's confusing enough walking into this bree- whether you are only interested in F1s-F3s or SBT kittens!

Maybe we should also strike "cinnamon" from breeders sites as well, as it clearly has me confused.

 

[Trish Allearz]

Nearly every breeder uses terms that are outside the breed standards to describe their kittens on their sites. It's commonplace for breeders to have different price points from the same litter and use all sorts of colorful metaphors proclaiming the differences. The breeder in question currently has 9 F2s on their site, with little to describe them outside the picture and 6 different price points (none labeled as elite, and some costing nearly twice as much as others). Certainly with that sort of spread there should be some latitude on how they choose to differentiate and describe their kittens.

So I'm left as nothing but confused if the issue is a descriptive word that no one else is using, an issue with the breeder in question or just sour grapes.

See post above, John. Apparently, you know the breeder who uses the term 'elite' personally or perhaps peruse a lot of cattery websites and have a memory like a hawk. It is not a term used throughout the community. It is a term used for marketing. Therefore, when introducing a newcomer to the breed- let's agree to use appropriate terms versus marketing terms. Give people the time to understand F1s and F4 SBTs before using other terms that are not used in the breed as a whole.

Leave the trickier terminology for people who've been in the breed longer.

And 'elite' is not the only marketing term out there. There are others, but it's the one that has been brought up a lot recently on this site.

 

[Trish Allearz]

Maybe we should also strike "cinnamon" from breeders sites as well, as it clearly has me confused.

Here you go, John, since you are obviously now making this personal...

http://www.tica.org/members/publications/ucd.pdf

Since you don't know what a cinnamon color is- I thought maybe we should enlighten you.

 

[admin]

Maybe we should also strike "cinnamon" from breeders sites as well, as it clearly has me confused.

John, what the heck is that supposed to mean??? You know damn well what a cinnamon spotted kitten is, so why are you being so sarcastic?

Listen, I have an A1 cat, you guys have cats from SE...there is no sour grapes from any of the breeders on this forum...what there is, is knowledge and the fact that the two largest savannah breeders use terms like elite and supremes is just plain marketing BS...you know it and I know it...

Zuri is an A1 cat - she was not labeled supreme as they were not using that term when I bought her...but I wanted one of the best cats to show and breed and that is what I was sold...today she would be marketed as a supreme...

You all need to stop taking all this elite and supreme BS so personally...the breeders on this forum don't need to use those terms as we do not breed 200 cats or more to sell...yes, I have a different price tier and explain it when I am selling a kitten and why...I don't raise those prices to 50% more than the rest of my kittens though, since I have no need to...

And let me ask you all something...which breeders are on this forum, devoting their time and efforts to helping, giving advice and just being there when anyone needs help or has a question? Which breeders are raising awareness for the breed by showing and educating the public? Which breeders have started organizations to help savannahs in need and to help fight bans and ownership limits? Yeah, you know the answers and it is NEITHER of the large breeders...so please try to remember that the next time you all insult the breeders on this forum.

I am so done with this...

 

[Louie'sDad]

Hi Laura,

Are you still here?

This is the first "spirited discussion" that I've seen since I've been here. Don't be discouraged, as this site is a wealth of information and loaded with good folks, including those involved here.

The female owner of the cattery in question has a degree in public relations, I understand. Clearly it is paying off for her. Her husband and co owner-operator is highly credentialed, with nutrition and genetics (I believe) among his knowledge base.

Moderators might consider locking this thread or moving/retitling it.

 

[admin]

Hi Laura,

Are you still here?

This is the first "spirited discussion" that I've seen since I've been here. Don't be discouraged, as this site is a wealth of information and loaded with good folks, including those involved here.

The female owner of the cattery in question has a degree in public relations, I understand. Clearly it is paying off for her. Her husband and co owner-operator is highly credentialed, with nutrition and genetics (I believe) among his knowledge base.

Moderators might consider locking this thread or moving/retitling it.

Thanks Joe...I am going to lock the thread...