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Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
Hi, thank you For sharing your experience. I will carry on following my instincts and hope that we will reach a place where I can handle her when I have to without causing her too much stress. I think that apart from being scruffed and held on a daily basis she had little human contact. I do think she is doing really well in a relatively short time. She is happy to play on my bed and sleep! She doesn't hide away when I am with her so she must enjoy me being around and especially the play. I haven't bought her basket/carrier in to her room yet but will do this today and make a new game out of it! In the hope I can get her in it if I need to. I will gradually introduce her to my boys and hope that they will look after her - until she takes over of course!! I will carry on working with her everyday and keep you posted

Scruffed and held on a daily basis? Is that her "socialization" and handling up to when you got her? Personally, that doesn't sound right to me. And if she was only handled once a day then that really does explain her behavior and indicates this will be a longer path... she hasn't learned to trust humans or to see the benefits in them really. And it may be true that being out with the others will demonstrate to her that you are a GOOD thing and she might want to be friendlier. If she will eat treats from your hand that is great, it's a good way to bribe her into interacting with you. She will associate those yummy things with your presence after all :)

I agree that the aim shoudl be that basic handling. To be able to grab her if you need to and to be able to transfer into the crate to go back and forth to your enclosure. Hopefully you can demonstrate to her the advantages of going into the carrier given she likely will enjoy the adventure of the enclosure :)
 

Evie

Savannah Super Cat
Scruffed and held on a daily basis? Is that her "socialization" and handling up to when you got her? Personally, that doesn't sound right to me. And if she was only handled once a day then that really does explain her behavior and indicates this will be a longer path... she hasn't learned to trust humans or to see the benefits in them really. And it may be true that being out with the others will demonstrate to her that you are a GOOD thing and she might want to be friendlier. If she will eat treats from your hand that is great, it's a good way to bribe her into interacting with you. She will associate those yummy things with your presence after all :)

I agree that the aim shoudl be that basic handling. To be able to grab her if you need to and to be able to transfer into the crate to go back and forth to your enclosure. Hopefully you can demonstrate to her the advantages of going into the carrier given she likely will enjoy the adventure of the enclosure :)
Thank you and yes I believe that's all she had in the way of handling. I think the breeder is a good one - I tried to do my homework - just a very busy lady. I feel happier asking questions on here than risk looking silly or calling at a bad time. I also didn't want to grab her like that everyday it just doesn't feel right. If it was going to work it would have by 12 weeks I'd have thought? I have had a lovely enclosure built for her and my Pixie-Bob, Moses - I think she will love it. I have plenty to look forward to. Thank you again for the helpful and supportive comments.
 

Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
I cannot see that grabbing and scruffing encourages bonding... being busy is not a great excuse. For me, this is a reason I prefer to only have one litter born at a time so that I know I can spend the hours each day with them that they deserve.And some kittens just need more work, a more intense socialization. We had that in our last F5 litter... from the moment she opened her eyes Lila was seemingly scared of us, while the other three in the litter were eagerly crawling towards us. Even at 8 weeks of age, she was still a bit of a freak although greatly improved...she tore up the hands of a TICA judge that visited my home and made the mistake of picking her up as she was so pretty. I almost despaired at that time, but we kept up the work... picking her up, playing with her...spending way more time with her than any other kitten (although they just climbed on us in any case). And then look at her, she's a star now at cat shows! She gets handled by numerous strangers and behaves like a perfect princess. But I am absolutely sure that if we had not spent the extra time and effort with her as a very young kitten, we would not have the confident social cat we have now. Some kittens are easy and some are more work...probably like children. I know my mum says my older brother was WAY more work than I was! LOL!

I know that that is an F5 kitten...but additionally, years ago we got an F1 at a year old. She soon decided she loved me but hated my husband. For 5 years she persisted in her dislike... then we got tolerance...and finally now after 8 years I think she loves him (just not as intensely as she loves me). Progress can just be SLOW sometimes...

Be patient and you will see results... but it is great that you don't expect a complete turnaround...she just may never be a supersocial easily handled kitty. But she will come to know and trust you on some level...and I am sure love you too :)
 

Evie

Savannah Super Cat
Ahh! Thank you Brigitte, there aren't so many breeders over here and even more difficult to find a good one. Just a shame they weren't more like you. You do need to spend time with them and as you say they all have different needs. I am having lots of eye contact now with my baby, which she couldn't cope with before. If I think about she has done great in just a few weeks :) who knows where we will be in another four weeks...
 

Patti

Admin
Staff member
Yes, I cringed when I read about the scruffing. That is NOT socialization! I would definitely avoid any scruffing, or any touching of her on the back of the neck at all. If you pet her on the back, start low. If you want to give her head scratches, go under the chin.

I agree with Brigitte, being busy is not an excuse not to socialize kittens. It sounds like she should not be having so many kittens if she is unable to properly raise them.

Be careful with the eye contact - that can be perceived as a threat. I would make a point of NOT making eye contact for the most part until you know she trusts you, or if you do invariably make eye contact blink slowly and slowly look away - that is a sign of trust and acceptance amongst cats.
 

Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
I was just about to write the same as Patti about the eye contact... be careful not to stare. We often think we are communicating friendship by those long looks but to a cat (or dog) it is dominance and threat. Long slow blinks are good as she mentions.

Work on identifying what she likes... what foods you could use as treats, what toys and types of play she especially likes. And you are exactly right, she's made progress in the past few weeks so the next few weeks should bring more success :)
 

Evie

Savannah Super Cat
Yes, I cringed when I read about the scruffing. That is NOT socialization! I would definitely avoid any scruffing, or any touching of her on the back of the neck at all. If you pet her on the back, start low. If you want to give her head scratches, go under the chin.

I agree with Brigitte, being busy is not an excuse not to socialize kittens. It sounds like she should not be having so many kittens if she is unable to properly raise them.

Be careful with the eye contact - that can be perceived as a threat. I would make a point of NOT making eye contact for the most part until you know she trusts you, or if you do invariably make eye contact blink slowly and slowly look away - that is a sign of trust and acceptance amongst cats.
Hi Patti, yes my poor little girl - not the greatest of starts for her. She is accepting being touched with toys and I have instinctively avoided the back of her neck! I try to gently stroke her paws or keep towards her rear end. Rest assured I know about the eye contact and have been careful to build this up slowly with lots of slow blinks and she is now happy to make eye contact. In fact the only times she will hiss at me now are if I come across her while she is hiding in a drawer or under my duvet! I know that she feels a little confined and I just leave her alone or distract her with a toy and she quickly forgets to be scared.
I have started the introductions with my other two cats - she met one yesterday who she frightened off with her over zealous greeting of him! She put her paw round his neck and stuffed her little nose in his neck! And purr! Its the first time I've heard her do this since she arrived and wow its the loudest purr I've have ever heard in a cat! She met my other boy today and they had a good sniff of each other. There have been a few hisses and a swipe but on the whole its going okay. I move her back to our room to give them all a break and although she doesn't want to I think I need to do this gradually especially when I need to pop out of the house. I am careful to stay and play with her or my teenage foster daughter will spend time with her until she is ready for a nap. I'm thinking another few days of the short meetings before leaving them to work things out as to who is boss and a day where I'm in all day?
 

Evie

Savannah Super Cat
I was just about to write the same as Patti about the eye contact... be careful not to stare. We often think we are communicating friendship by those long looks but to a cat (or dog) it is dominance and threat. Long slow blinks are good as she mentions.

Work on identifying what she likes... what foods you could use as treats, what toys and types of play she especially likes. And you are exactly right, she's made progress in the past few weeks so the next few weeks should bring more success :)
Hi
I was just about to write the same as Patti about the eye contact... be careful not to stare. We often think we are communicating friendship by those long looks but to a cat (or dog) it is dominance and threat. Long slow blinks are good as she mentions.

Work on identifying what she likes... what foods you could use as treats, what toys and types of play she especially likes. And you are exactly right, she's made progress in the past few weeks so the next few weeks should bring more success :)
Hi Brigitte, I just wanted to put your mind at rest about the eye contact, I'm very much aware of how threatening it is to them and am careful to point this out to her visitors! I am glad that it has been pointed out as it might be helpful to other owners. My kitten is coming on in leaps and bounds over the past couple of days. She has explored most of the house and met my other two furrkids! Briefly anyway and I will try and build this up everyday. I was just replying to Patti saying she purred for the first time - no offence taken!! - yesterday when she met one of the cats! She even tried to rub on my legs like cats do although she didn't really know how to do it - I think she had seen Moses do it to me so think it will help her to see how I interact with the other two. So great advice from all of you on the forum - just would like to get to be one big happy family. :)
 

Patti

Admin
Staff member
You have definitely made good progress! It sounds like she relates much more easily to other cats, which may hinder her bonding with you once she is free to interact with your other cats, but you can't keep her locked up indefinitely, and she is clearly very happy with other cats. It's a give and take, I think eventually she will learn that you are her best friend and will purr for you as well!! :up:
 
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